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Re: Fpse for Android Discussion/Feedback

Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 6:06 am
by mckimiaklopa
great great job!
Although it has been months now since you have promised as the emulation of dithering.
Dithering will be very useful in software emulation especially on 2x and 4x.

It will smooth out colors making the graphics much more smoother.

I hope the dithering that will be implemented in fpse will be better than the one found in epsxe and will be on par if not greater than the one in retroarch

kudos to you

Re: Fpse for Android Discussion/Feedback

Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 6:36 am
by bluezeak
Ok, I'm done (for now :) ). Sorry it was so much - but I think it is good to give schtruck quality feedback.

Schtruck - please read my comments again. I edited them several times.

Schtruck - I asked several questions in all of those comments. Please answer if you can. I understand if you can't though.

@otakuloser and schtruck - I thought there used to be a fast forward - a way to disable framelimiter. I think it only worked in portrait mode, not landscape mode. You touched the middle of the screen. Am I mistaken? Anyway - I agree with the fast forward / disable framelimiter option. It would be great to be able to quickly, temporarily, disable framelimiter.

@mckimiaklopa nad otakuloser: dithering. I've not used it much really, but this is what I've researched about it (from when I was creating my PEOpS spreadsheet):
"Note that Dithering and Anti-aliasing are opposite functions. Dithering uses spatial resolution to make up for a lack of colours. Anti-aliasing uses colours to make up for a lack of spatial resolution."
and
"Anti-aliasing is a technique for improving spatial resolution at the cost of luminance resolution. Dithering is a technique for improving luminance resolution at the cost of spatial resolution"

It sounds to me like dithering will make color look better at the cost of resolution. Very Vibrant colors can make things look much better so you don't need as good resolution I guess, but I don't know how much better it would be. It would be interesting to see. If you guys have some screen shots (or links to screenshots) that show how dithering will make things better I would be interested. Personally, I'm more interested in getting 3D / HQ stuff working better.

Re: Fpse for Android Discussion/Feedback

Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 6:10 pm
by Q8-V08

Re: Fpse for Android Discussion/Feedback

Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 10:41 am
by mckimiaklopa
this is a much better comparison

go here
http://www.fpsece.net/forum2/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=2647&view=unread#unread

Look at the pictures of final fantasy IX with and without dithering.

The original psx uses dithering and i don't see a problem implementing a feature that was supposed to be in fpse in the first place.

If you do implement dithering,do not imitate the dithering in epsxe since it is highly inaccurate.Go for the dithering used in PCSX and psxfin

Re: Fpse for Android Discussion/Feedback

Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 10:52 am
by mckimiaklopa
Here is another one

http://www.fpsece.net/forum2/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=2034&hilit=FpseCE..&start=5680

I'm sad to say that the ugly screenshot of ff7 is from fpse.Dithering makes it look so vibrant.And don't get me started with the diablos fight in FF8 without dithering.It looked so awful that did not even post a screenshot of it.I am so sorry to say this but that battle without dithering especially on FPSE looks so different from how it is intended to look that in FPSE,you could'nt really see any clouds.FF8 with dithering looks so much better

Like I said,dithering was one of the functions of a real psx console.It is used in nearly all games(especially 3d games)

If you do not want dithering,than go for 32-bit color(it will be like dithering but without the dots/diamond-like patterns which is totally better)


The dithering I am requesting is for software mode(all modes in fpse)

Re: Fpse for Android Discussion/Feedback

Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 6:53 pm
by Q8-V08
How is dithering meant to help with low res 2d backgrounds or effects from being pixelated? all I notice it doing is stopping colour banding, it doesn't upscale anything to a higher res. Any by low res I mean games like Time Crisis, Deathrap Dungeon.

Re: Fpse for Android Discussion/Feedback

Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 9:40 pm
by mckimiaklopa
Q8-V08 wrote:How is dithering meant to help with low res 2d backgrounds or effects from being pixelated? all I notice it doing is stopping colour banding, it doesn't upscale anything to a higher res. Any by low res I mean games like Time Crisis, Deathrap Dungeon.


I don't think it actually helps with pre-rendered backgrounds.

Dithering will just make colors smoother and much more vibrant and like I said,it was a method used by the ps1 in countless of games.
It will sometimes make textures a lot smoother.

The reason why the fog rendered correctly in silent hill and final fantasy IX on a n original psx console is because of dithering

Re: Fpse for Android Discussion/Feedback

Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 9:57 am
by mckimiaklopa
For the sake of consistency,here are the comparison pics(reposted by me)

FFIX without dithering
Image

FFIX with Dithering
Image

FFVII without dithering
Image

FFVII with dithering
Image

FFVIII without true fullscreen dithering
Image

FFVIII with true fullscreen dithering
Image
Not only does it remove color banding,it makes graphics much betTer(look at the clouds)

Like I always say,dithering has always been a great friend of the original PSX and because it was a feature of the PSx,it must be implemented for the sake of accuracy


go also to this thread for some interesting info
http://www.sega-16.com/forum/showthread.php?15003-Full-Screen-Dithering-on-the-PSX

Re: Fpse for Android Discussion/Feedback

Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 12:33 pm
by bluezeak
Ok, we've been talking too much in this thread about this dithering & other graphics enhancements.

I've created a new thread. Let's talk about these things over there. If anything particularly exciting happens we can bring it back up again here :).

viewtopic.php?f=39&t=7123&p=38361#p38361

Re: Fpse for Android Discussion/Feedback

Posted: Fri May 02, 2014 11:46 am
by schtruck
What we need is a good unbanding shaders. I m working on shaders now.

4xhq is very impressive .